Thursday, April 7, 2011
What Guys Think About Modesty - (Modesty Part II)
"We are to be people who are different & distinctly different, not self righteously distinct, but humbly distinct for our brothers who are saved, for the lost yet to be saved, & ultimately for the SAVIOR who SAVED us."
Ladies, we pray this is a blessing to you and cautions all of us to dress in such a way that brings glory to the Lord!
~Lauren & Page
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I really appreciate your hearts in putting this up. For that matter, let me say that I really appreciate and admire you guys for putting this blog together! I think you guys are doing a great thing. It's so helpful for (often otherwise isolated) mothers of young children/homemakers to have a place to connect and learn from each other
ReplyDeleteThe message of this video, though (while definitely presented in a better way than usual), is one that I feel like I've been hit over the head with since middle school. I think it's time for Christians to have a discussion of modesty that goes deeper than "you better be modest so you don't cause guys to stumble." I bought into this and tried to live it until college (though it never fully made sense to me). When I went to college, I started to learn that different families have completely different definitions of "modest" and "immodest." And I began to learn that different men are turned on by different parts of the female body and that I am always going to be a "stumbling block" to some man even if I'm covered from head to toe in a baggy sack!
I just don't think the main point of biblical modesty is to keep men from lusting--not only because the male mind is not in our control, but also because I don't see that idea in Scripture. I think that is something Christians have been reading into Scripture for a long time... but I just don't see it. Reread 1 Peter 3 and 1 Timothy 2 in context. I would argue that neither passage is actually talking about clothes at all--I think they're actually talking about a spirit of modesty.
Well, I definitely don't have all this sorted out. I couldn't refrain from stirring up the pot a little, though... um, it's my spiritual gift ;) Any thoughts on this?
Lauren, awesome that you shared this video too. I thought it was eye opening & a good reminder to women to be accountable for what we put on...or the lack there of.
ReplyDelete@Emily, you make a good point. It is very clear that 1Peter 3 is referring to the hidden man of the heart. My former pastor always said, "Place the emphasis where God places the emphasis." On this topic, the Lord makes clear that adorning our heart should be first & fore most important. but it too is my belief as we see shown by example in Scripture that when you do keep your heart right with God your outside conversation will match it..I would think that would include what we wear or put on as in 1 Tim. 2:9 the Lord mentions that to us. Modest in my strongs means= of good behavior & as Christians I don't think we ought to choose between the good or the bad, but choose between the good & the BEST. Apperal in my strongs=costume..so the Lord does leave room here for individuals to seek His face on the matter...but we'd be foolish to say that when we wear something that shows skin than ought not be shown we feel a bit uncomfortable, like a tugging of 'this doesn't feel right' in our heart. I listen to that b/c if I don't that tugging will fade. When I shop or get ready for the day I have that in mind, it this outfit BEST? Will it please Him without a doubt? Or is there doubt in my own heart about this shirt or pant/skirt?? God speaks to individuals & so I have to be close enough, 'heart' close enough to hear Him speak to me. I think many girls (I was one for a long time) just obey standards b/c they have to, or b/c it's what they are told is right, & they don't devolop their own standards out of a deep LOVE for their Lord. God help young women & myself alike to always look to the Lord when putting on modest apparel.
~heidi S. (sorry for my long rambles;)
Heidi, Thanks for your thoughts! I totally agree. A heart trying to hear and obey Jesus leads to appropriate dress. And there is nothing more important than trying to hear and obey Jesus.
ReplyDeleteI think there are two problems with the way Christians tend to discuss modesty: First, I think the practice of guilt-tripping women and girls for men's lust is just wrong. I have several reasons for this and I can elaborate if needed.
Second, Christians (in my experience) tend to have very fixed ideas of what is modest and what is immodest. This is just not true to reality. The Bible never gives a set of rules about which areas of the body must be covered. When you start looking at different families and different cultures, you begin to realize that "modest" dress is pretty difficult to define. In some of the islands of Micronesia (Yap specifically) women are very careful to keep their legs covered down to the ankle for modesty's sake. However, they have no qualms with going topless because it is not considered immodest. In ancient Corinth, modest women covered their heads; an uncovered head was the mark of a prostitute.
So what do we do? I don't think we have to cover our heads here in the US, and I definitely don't think we should go topless! My husband (who is looking over my shoulder :) says first we need to realize that modesty is a cultural issue rather than an absolute standard issue. He also says that we need to take into account 4 things when we decide what to wear: culture, location, company, activity. I think he's right. "Appropriateness for the occasion" has been a more helpful concept for me than modesty... probably because of the way modesty was defined for me growing up. *Sigh... the reason I'm bringing any of this up at all is that the modesty issue was very difficult and confusing for me in high school and college... I know it's not such a big deal for everyone. Feedback on the above???
So, I’ve been reading through your all’s comments. I’d like to thank you all first and foremost for discussing the matter, rationally and lovingly. So often, these things can become crazy, blown-up messes… You both know just what I mean.
ReplyDeleteI finally had a chance to sit and watch the video. And now—your comments make much more sense to me : )
I think I see your point, Emily, on not “guilt tripping” women on the subject—we grew up together, and I know what you’re talking about… I guess when I think of this particular subject—this scripture tends to come to mind:
Romans 14:12-14 “So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.”
We all give an account to God for our actions. Which is what is so beautiful about what Heidi said “that when you do keep your heart right with God your outside conversation will match it… God speaks to individuals & so I have to be close enough, 'heart' close enough to hear Him speak to me.” ♥
Although the Bible doesn’t specifically say “biblical modesty is to keep men from lusting”, isn’t it a stumbling block to them to dress in a way that draws incorrect attention to our bodies? And The Bible says that is wrong. Listen, I can’t account for that poor soul who sees my big toe and loses control—I am not the stumbling block at that point. It’s my intentions when I dress my toe. If I’m dressing to get his attention, or get that look, or feel like I’m the stuff—isn’t that when it’s immodest? Even Lauren and myself have a very differing “dress code”, if you will… But that’s not a problem—because it’s not about the “dress code”—it’s my heart attitude when I’m dressing.
Like Heidi said—we know when we are dressing “that way” because of the Holy Spirit’s guidance…
Me & you (Emily) have talked a million times about those “fixed ideas”—and have both seen that it is incorrect to do so (adding our preferences and ideas to God’s Holy & Perfect Word (which being Holy and Perfect, It obviously doesn’t need my opinion on this matter or any other)) And our Perfect Heavenly Father wrote these things exactly the way He intended—because of the “4 things” you mentioned!
My husband & I have talked at length about these things. That’s a great place to start when dealing with modesty. Trust me—he wants me modest, but is not interested in me wearing the “baggy sack” : ) Men are so different than us ladies. Just remember—their thoughts are different than ours. God made them different-PRAISE-and we have to respect that always, including in our “dress”. This video is just a little snippet of that.
Thank you all, again, so much for your input. It’s all about striving to be more like The Lord and be closer to Him. That’s what it is—being more like Him. Not man’s ideas—His. I want to be like Him.
And, Emily, when are you coming to see me?!!?!? It’s been too long. Miss you. Love you.
~Page